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| 14179 | The finest branch of wisdom is justice and moderation in ordering states and families |
| Full Idea: By far the greatest and fairest branch of wisdom is that which is concerned with the due ordering of states and families, whose name is moderation and justice. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 209a) | |||
| A reaction: ['Justice' is probably 'dikaiosune'] It is hard to disagree with this, and it relegates ivory tower philosophical contemplation to second place, unlike the late books of Aristotle's Ethics. |
| 1607 | Diotima said the Forms are the objects of desire in philosophical discourse |
| Full Idea: According to Diotima, the Forms are the objects of desire operative in philosophical discourse. | |||
| From: report of Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 210a4-) by David Roochnik - The Tragedy of Reason p.199 |
| 24285 | Beauty itself is eternal, and beautiful objects partake of it, but never change it |
| Full Idea: [Through love a person will come] to perceive beauty in itself and by itself, constant and eternal, and he'll see that every beautiful object somehow partakes of it, but in a way that their coming to be and ceasing to be don't change it at all. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 211b) | |||
| A reaction: I suppose the Beautiful is just inexhaustible, in the way sunlight seems to be. Or as a blueprint can lead to endless actual instances. Presumably, though, it has causal powers, despite its enduring character. |
| 174 | True opinion without reason is midway between wisdom and ignorance |
| Full Idea: There is a state of mind half-way between wisdom and ignorance - having true opinions without being able to give reasons for them. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 202a) | |||
| A reaction: Compare Idea 2140, where Plato scorns this state of mind. What he describes could be split into two - purely lucky true beliefs, and 'externalist knowledge', with non-conscious justification. |
| 181 | Only the gods stay unchanged; we replace our losses with similar acquisitions |
| Full Idea: We retain identity not by staying the same (the preserve of gods) but by replacing losses with new similar acquisitions. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 208b) | |||
| A reaction: Any modern student of personal identity should be intrigued by this remark! It appears to take a rather physical view of the matter, and to be aware of human biology as a process. Are my continuing desires token-identical, or just 'similar'? |
| 180 | We call a person the same throughout life, but all their attributes change |
| Full Idea: During the period from boyhood to old age, man does not retain the same attributes, though he is called the same person. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 207d) | |||
| A reaction: This precisely identifies the basic problem of personal identity over time. If this is the problem, DNA looks more and more significant for the answer, though it would be an awful mistake to think a pattern of DNA was a person. |
| 172 | Love of ugliness is impossible |
| Full Idea: There cannot be such a thing as love of ugliness. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 201a) |
| 173 | Beauty and goodness are the same |
| Full Idea: What is good is the same as what is beautiful. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 201c) |
| 4026 | Beauty is harmony with what is divine, and ugliness is lack of such harmony |
| Full Idea: Ugliness is out of harmony with everything that is godly; beauty, however, is in harmony with the divine. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 206d) | |||
| A reaction: This remark shows how the concept of 'harmony' is at the centre of Greek thought (and is a potential bridge of the is/ought gap). |
| 183 | Stage two is the realisation that beauty of soul is of more value than beauty of body |
| Full Idea: The second stage of progress is to realise that beauty of soul is more valuable than beauty of body. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 210b) |
| 184 | Progress goes from physical beauty, to moral beauty, to the beauty of knowledge, and reaches absolute beauty |
| Full Idea: One should step up from physical beauty, to moral beauty, to the beauty of knowledge, until at last one knows what absolute beauty is. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 211c) | |||
| A reaction: Presumably this is why Socrates refused sexual favours to Alcibiades. The idea is inspiring, and yet it is a rejection of humanity. |
| 171 | Music is a knowledge of love in the realm of harmony and rhythm |
| Full Idea: Music may be called a knowledge of the principles of love in the realm of harmony and rhythm. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 187c) |
| 24286 | Perceiving true beauty leads to truth, and hence to goodness |
| Full Idea: There's no other medium in which someone who uses the appropriate faculty to see beauty can give birth to true goodness, instead of phantom goodness, because it is truth rather than illusion whose company he is in. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 212a) | |||
| A reaction: This is the core of platonism, where the faculties of love and intellect achieve the truth about beauty, which immediately leads to goodness. I wish I could find a modern way that is less mystical to express this thought. Beauty, truth and goodness. |
| 14177 | Love assists men in achieving merit and happiness |
| Full Idea: Phaedrus: Love is not only the oldest and most honourable of the gods, but also the most powerful to assist men in the acquisition of merit and happiness, both here and hereafter. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 180b) | |||
| A reaction: Maybe we should talk less of love as a feeling, and more as a motivation, not just in human relationships, but in activities like gardening and database compilation. |
| 179 | Love is desire for perpetual possession of the good |
| Full Idea: Love is desire for perpetual possession of the good. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 206a) | |||
| A reaction: Even the worst human beings often have lovers. 'Perpetual' is a nice observation. |
| 176 | Love follows beauty, wisdom is exceptionally beautiful, so love follows wisdom |
| Full Idea: Wisdom is one of the most beautiful of things, and Love is love of beauty, so it follows that Love must be a love of wisdom. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 204b) | |||
| A reaction: Good, but wisdom isn't the only exceptionally beautiful thing. Music is beautiful partly because it is devoid of ideas. |
| 177 | If a person is good they will automatically become happy |
| Full Idea: 'What will be gained by a man who is good?' 'That is easy - he will be happy'. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 205a) | |||
| A reaction: Suppose you tried to assassinate Hitler in 1944 (a good deed), but failed. Happiness presumably results from success, rather than mere good intentions. |
| 14178 | Happiness is secure enjoyment of what is good and beautiful |
| Full Idea: By happy you mean in secure enjoyment of what is good and beautiful? - Certainly. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 202c) | |||
| A reaction: We seem to have lost track of the idea that beauty might be an essential ingredient of happiness. |
| 182 | The first step on the right path is the contemplation of physical beauty when young |
| Full Idea: The man who would pursue the right way to his goal must begin, when he is young, by contemplating physical beauty. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 210a) |
| 170 | The only slavery which is not dishonourable is slavery to excellence |
| Full Idea: The only form of servitude which has no dishonour has for its object the acquisition of excellence. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 184c) |
| 175 | Gods are not lovers of wisdom, because they are already wise |
| Full Idea: No god is a lover of wisdom or desires to be wise, for he is wise already. | |||
| From: Plato (The Symposium [c.373 BCE], 204a) |